Plie Squats

[LauraGG]

I just read elsewhere that a former Firm instructor is no longer recommending plie squats - that they are dangerous. Does anyone here have any new info on plie squats? I *love* them, but I do have to be very careful with my knees - no plyos for me, for example.

What's the scoop?

Thanks! Laura :)

[stacy4ft9]

Laura - I've heard the same thing and got nervous about doing them. Since I don't do them every day (not all of my workouts have them), I figured it would be okay.

I would love to get more feedback on it though. I definitely don't want to hurt my knees.

[bettialice]

Plie squats are my most favorites and I have never had any trouble with them. And I am going to keep doing them no matter what. But I would like to know why they are considered dangerous.

[Firm Believer]

I saw the same post, but there was no explanation as to why they were dangerous. I can't imagine a single reason why they would be wrong. Waiting to hear from Team Fitprime on this one!

[Redeye]

I also don't understand why they would be more dangerous than other exercise:confused: .

Since they don't cause me pain, during or after, I'll continue to do them because I love how they work my inner thigh muscles.

I could be persuaded to change my mind though.

[stacy4ft9]

I'm pretty sure there was thread on V's forum that talked about why these weren't good. I'll have to search for it later on.

I still do them because they feel good!

[Vanessa]

I think it said that the plie position was not a natural position and something about muscle imbalance. The natural position is toes forward. Can you tell I really don't know much about it?! Anyway, I like the plies. So I'm another one who does them.

[donnadonna]

I read that same post on the V forum and, in my feeble recollection, it was something about professional ballet dancers sustaining injury or muscular imbalance or something involving the hip. It didn't make too much of an impression because in my (humble?) opinion, most of these kind of warnings are ridiculous - they obviously apply to elite athletes, which would include ballet dancers, who plie for hours and hours on a daily basis.

You may be in awesome shape, you may be a fitness diva, you may look and feel better than anyone on your block, but if you're a home exerciser, you're probably not an elite athlete - I know that I'm not.

As a general rule, I think that if you watch your form and listen to your body, you're not going to hurt yourself. I think it takes an enormous number of reps on an enormously frequent basis to cause a problem. I've been doing Anna Benson workouts almost exclusively for 15 years and have never sustained any injuries to anything.

[FitChick21]

It was definitely the V forum where that was posted, and it did say that plie squats are an unnatural position for our bodies to be in. I still do them cuz I love Tough Tape 2 and Lower Body Split, but it's not in every workout so I think it's ok to do them once in awhile. Especially since they seem to work so well! :) I try not to do it too much because I am a devoted V follower; they really emphasize keeping your toes forward in a lot of moves when we're used to them going a little more at an angle. Hope that helped a little! :rolleyes:

[Vanessa]

As a general rule, I think that if you watch your form and listen to your body, you're not going to hurt yourself. I think it takes an enormous number of reps on an enormously frequent basis to cause a problem. I've been doing Anna Benson workouts almost exclusively for 15 years and have never sustained any injuries to anything.


Well said, Donna!

And Carol, we miss you over at the 50's thread!

You both mentioned listening to you body....that is the key, I think! The older I get the more I have to listen!

[LauraGG]

I read that same post on the V forum and, in my feeble recollection, it was something about professional ballet dancers sustaining injury or muscular imbalance or something involving the hip. It didn't make too much of an impression because in my (humble?) opinion, most of these kind of warnings are ridiculous - they obviously apply to elite athletes, which would include ballet dancers, who plie for hours and hours on a daily basis.


This makes a lot of sense to me, donnadonna. My neighbor was a ballet dancer growing up, and she has never allowed her now 13 year old daughter to take ballet because of all the problems she's had with her hips and knees throughout her adult life. My dd (8 y.o.) takes ballet once a week, and my neighbor (also a good friend) is worried about her. However, when questioned, it turns out that not only did my friend take ballet classes for hours every week, but her teachers actually stood on her legs when she was in a butterfly position to increase her hip turnout! A few plie squats certainly can't compare to that kind of abuse to the hips!

My dd's old ballet teacher, who is also the studio owner can't lift her leg more than a couple of feet off the ground now, and she's in her 50s. I've never asked her, but it's probably ballet related. So, yes! Let's listen to our bodies, and pay attention.

Thanks so much, everyone, for all the feedback. Plie squats are one of my favorite exercises, so I don't want to give them up without a really good reason.

Laura :)

[idbuck]

I have done plie squats in the past and actually noticed strange pain in my knees the next day or two. Now, I substitute "toes forward" squats in the videos and have never had the same pain. I guess it is important to be aware of what our bodies are telling us. Apparently, I lack the flexibility in my knees to do them effectively. Maybe it was poor form, or weird knees - anyway, no plie squats for me!

[Redeye]

anyway, no plie squats for me!

And you're a smart woman for making that decision! I wish more people would pay attention to what their bodies are telling them. If it hurts your joints or feels terrible (I'm not talking about lactic acid pain which really hurts and feels awful) simply don't do it! You could be causing damage.

We are exercising to improve our health, not damage it. I know people that run every day, don't cross train, and don't rest, then wonder why they are injured or have to have knee surgery. Stoopid! Stoopid! Stoopid! :(

Sometimes I had to turn away and not look at somebody at the gym who was jerking heavy weights around while twisting their back...ack!...an injury waiting to happen.

[abm]

I substitute "toes forward" squats

Can someone please explain this to me? Is this just a plie squat with your toes forward...so just like a very wide-stanced regular squat? Does this work the same muscles?

I am curious as my knees tend to feel 'funny' after plie squats sometimes...not painful...I just can't describe it..but only after plies. I thought maybe I need to develop more muscle..or maybe I am off balance abd out of alignment when I am doing them.

Any thoughts?

[lisa4nikki]

Hi, I'm Lisa and this is my very first post after being a follower of the Firm and now FP for years(look for my photo in the infomercials :) . I am an ACE cerified Group fitnes Instuctor, and Personal trainer to name a few :) .
The main thing you want to be sure of is that for any squat..Plie, or regular..is that your knees are in the direction of your toes. You can substitute a plie squat if your knees feel funny for a "SUMO" squat( which is just a wide squat). With ALL squats your toes should be turned out slightly in line with your knees..toes never tracking beyond your shoe laces or mid top of foot.
WITH PLIE SQUATS THE FOCUS SHOULD BE TO FEEL LONG AND TALL ,LEGS WIDE (so that the knees are just slightly infront ankle alignment at descent), PELVIC TALEBONE DROPPING STRAIGHT TO THE FLOOR(not arching back as in a regular squat). YOU WANT TO FEEL THE STRETCH ON THE WAY DOWN, AND PULL UP AND TOGETHER WITH YOUR INNER THIGHS AT THE TOP OF THE MOVEMENT, THEN GIVE YOUR GLUTES A GREAT BIG DELIBERATE SQUEEZE. With practice it will come. But if your knees are feeling bad..substitute for the wide squat,which still targets your glutes and adductor muscles (inner thighs)..it is the "wide legs position" that make any squat work more specifically for the inner thigh muscle group.
I hope this was of help for you. Lisa.

[abm]

Thanks for all the great info Lisa!!

[nancy]

I've been doing Anna Benson workouts almost exclusively for 15 years and have never sustained any injuries to anything.

Wow! Great testimonial! I've always felt that Anna's workouts have an amazing ability to be effective while still being gentle to the body. The older I get, the less I'm willing to overtrain or risk injury!

[Martha E]

I've done plie squats for well over 15 years (aren't there some in Vol. 1?), and I've never injured myself. JMHO, but because we're all different in terms of how much weight we can use safely and how much flexibility we have, I think using weights that are too heavy and/or forcing oneself into a turnout that's beyond what's natural for one's body would be the source(s) of injury, along with failing to pay attention to one's form.

Trying to mimic the form of an instructor or background exerciser who's Gumby's stunt double can be bad news for those of us who don't have the Gumby gene. That's one thing that really stands out in the new workouts for me--someone, be it the instructor or one of the background exercisers, is always more or less where I am in terms of flexibility, etc. And it's not always the same person within a single workout--how cool is that?

[persiankat555]

I have messed up knees so I have to be careful with any exercise that involves my lower body. I like plie squats, but I modify them by not going very deep. As long as I rotate workouts, I don't feel like I'm missing anything on any particular exercise that focuses on a certain muscle group. Everyone is different & I think we should be careful to listen to our own bodies regardless of what the buzz is in the exercise news.;)

[dnk]

As I recall, plie squats (or anything where there is a lot of turnout from the hips) can overly tighten your piriformis, which is a deep buttocks muscle. If you've ever had a bout of sciatica, you may have heard of that muscle. If you really get into it (at the level of a dancer, say), you can also pull on your back muscles, particularly your quadratus lumborum (sp?). I've also heard of some very busy Pilates instructors requiring hip replacement surgery after forcing turnout for a long time.

Most of the people I know who have had the problem were people who don't have a lot of natural turnout through their hips and really have to force it through their buttocks (and later low back) muscles. However, I'm someone who has a lot of turnout through my hips, and I noticed that when I stopped doing turnout exercises and doing Core Foundations (very sporadically), my toes started pointing forward, as opposed to their usual (and uncomfortable) turnout that I've always had. And that seems to make it easier for me to walk longer distances.

I don't know what the answer is for everyone, but I'm comfortable not doing them.

Deb

[geniqu4u]

:) I really don't think that anyone should be to alarmed. I've had knee surgery, and I didn't have any problems with plie squats after surgery and it's been 18 yrs since. As with all exercises, you have to watch your form. You can get hurt doing anything if you don't watch your form.

As former personal trainer and aerobics instructor myself, it's safe to say that if you pay attention to your body, watch your form, and don't push yourself to the limit in the initial phase of the execution of your exercise you will be fine. Building a little at a time is the key. When in doubt, go see your physician.

Genia